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Forum Name: Miscellaneous Nephrology Topics

Question: Kidney stones, pain worse from taking Relacore


 darkestdays30 - Thu May 08, 2008 7:26 am

I started using Relacore, not to lose weight, but need anxiety relief in an attempt to quit smoking. My dr would never prescribe me an anxiety med and I heard this stuff really helps.

I've had renal stones for over a yr, came back not long after having lazer surgery last spring, and I've passed about 9 of them since, still have them in both kidneys.

Problem with Relacore is the increase in pain in both my kidneys, not something you constantly feel unless your in the process of passing a stone or have one stuck in your ureter. Not the case here. I can tell it's inflicted by the diet pill. It's only in my kidneys, no pain in my ureters or bladder.

I don't want to quit taking it because if I continue to smoke, I continue to live with chronic fatigue. So I would like to make sure there isn't anything in Relecore that can affect your kidneys in a bad way.
 John Kenyon, CNA - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:04 pm

User avatar Hello -

You've certainly endured more kidney stones than several people would in several lifetimes. Is there by any chance a history in your family of this same problem? There are a few hereditary causes of this, and having so many is really quite unusual. Oh, also do you take large doses of vitamin C by any chance?

The little information that is available about Relacore shows nothing that would likely cause kidney stones, but in someone with such a high frequency of them, some of the many components could conceivably help promote their development. Magnolia bark seems to be the most significant ingredient of Relacore and little is known about its effect on the human body except that it is reputed, among herbalists, to have a mild sedative effect.

I hope you will continue to folow up with a good urologist to be sure your kidneys aren't damaged by all the calculi that keep forming. Also, be certain to stay well hydrated, and good luck to you with the smoking cessation. That's also very important, as I'm sure you realize.

Please follow up with us especially if anything new comes to light.
 darkestdays30 - Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:40 am

My grandmother had kidney disease, two of my cousins have it. My uncle & twin sister has had problems with kidney stones (all on my mom's side of the family). No I don't use vit C but I drink orange juice & eat oranges off and on but not excessively. Should I stop doing that?

Last month I had a retrograde pyelogram & it didn't show the stones, after my CT in april, I passed one stone, about 1 week after the retrograde, I passed one more. The CT showed I had bilateral scattered stones, all under 4mm. But the urologist told me I didn't have stones anymore. I have not passed all of them yet.
Do you have any idea why a retrograde might give false results?

My sleep is being severely affected by the flank pain. I take ambien, it's not helping, every night, I wake up hurting & needing to pea, & just can't go back to sleep because of it. I probably wouldn't even be able to fall asleep if it wasn't for the ambien. The pain gets worse during the night, & then for some reason, even worse when I need to pea. I have burning pain going up my back & a constant ache that won't go away in the upper part of my kidneys. I react to about every medication I take now & have tingling sensations & itching from it that won't let up. I haven't stopped taking ambien or adderall yet.

I can't get help since that stupid retrograde showed nothing. I was in the ER twice since that test, one time with blood pouring out of me, but since I wasn't screeming in pain, they wouldn't do a CT. My PCP didn't either. So for now, I'm stuck putting up with it. I don't really know what to do. I plan to go back to the urologist to argue this in Dec but he never wanted to help the begin with because of the size of the stones, since they're passable. I don't know if he'll do anything.
 John Kenyon, CNA - Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:36 pm

User avatar Hi -

Well that answers the question about family history. This will likely be a chronic problem. The question remains about the stones you no doubt still have and why the retrograde study wouldn't show them. If they are still incarcerated in the kidneys and haven't started moving down the ureters, they aren't going to show up on a retrograde study, because the contrast material can't be forced all the way up and into the kidneys. This study is more useful at looking for obstructions, stones, and other problems in the ureters. If no stones were active (moving down) at the time, they would't show up. However, the study may have helped dislodge one upstream, which was passed about a week later.

I'm not sure why your doctor would tell you there are no stones when the study can't visualize that far up into the kidneys themselves. No stones present in the tract doesn't mean they aren't up there waiting to release. I find that puzzling. Most likely be hearing from them, and your doctor should be hearing from you.

Good luck with this. Please stay in touch.
 darkestdays30 - Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:04 pm

I guess that goes to show the dr didn't want to help me. I didn't go to him just over the stones, I went for another opinion about my interstitial cystitis in question as to how that is actually diagnosed in a bladder biopsy, believing it was a mistake, because I had chronic UTI's & focal reactive cystitis. How do you have 2 different types of cystitis & since when can IC be diagnosed on a bladder biopsy? I have an appt with him in December & plan on trying to get him to consider doing a CT but I don't know if he'll help me or not. He didn't exactly want to help the start with. But I least I know how to argue the reason it should be done now. Thank you for helping. I could kiss the ground you walk on for that explanation.
 darkestdays30 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:36 pm

My urologist said that the contrast does go all the way up in the kidneys & the retrograde may have missed the stones only because they were tiny. He said where I was diagnosed with scattered bilateral stones on a CT before meant they were tiny stones. The retrograde showed the lower poles of the kidneys but by far did not show my entire kidneys, I have a copy of the x-rays.

If it's okay, I would like to ask about my bladder diagnosis. This was to get another opinion on having interstitial cystitis.

I have chronic inflammation inside my bladder. Does that mean it's IC? Can't there be other causes for that? Like medication reactions and reactive cystitis (like burning from taking a bath and using soap)? He failed to do a bladder biopsy.

He claims that IC can be diagnosed on a bladder biopsy. I thought that the biopsy was used to rule out other causes. Since when can a biopsy diagnose IC in the report itself (not what the pathologist says is the pre & post-op diagnosis, my pre-op was reactive cystitis, post-op same), this is on the actual biopsy.

He claims that you don't check bladder capacity with a hydrodistention. Is that true? But yet claimed my bladder couldn't hold much. I can drink 2 large glasses of water and hold it several hours without a good urge to go to the bathroom & I usually pea large amounts, like 15-20 ounces at a time. How is it my bladder capacity is low? How would he even know without measuring the capacity.

I ask him about the size of my bladder and he said it looked okay, so then I told him I was told it was shrinking, and he then agrees it was. Another thing confusing me, how if your bladder is of normal size, could it be shrinking? He never bothered saying such until I asked him. I think he's just taking up for my past doctor.

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