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Forum Name: Psychiatric Topics

Question: Borderline Personality Disorder

habanero - Wed May 23, 2007 5:37 pm

I think I see and experience traits of this disorder in someone very close to me. I would like to enter into a disussion with a pro or someone that's dealt with this disorder in someone they have been close to. I would like to talk about more than the standard symptoms and criteria but specific behaviours. If I feel that this disorder is a possibility in this person close to me then I also would like some help and advice in how I may deal and respond with this.

Dr. K. Eisele - Thu May 24, 2007 6:36 am

Dear Habanero: I happen to work with patients who suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder everyday. I'll be happy to discuss the disorder with you.

habanero - Sun May 27, 2007 4:41 pm

Thanks. I'm having a hard time deciding where to begin. Actually, with this person I've been involved with for a long time I don't know where this begins and that ends. I feel like my mind is mush and my soul has been raped. No matter what I did she found fault with it. I never could do anything to live up to her scrutiny and standards. Also her standards were double. I couldn't do certain things or she found fault with me but she could do the same and it was okay. She never thought there were any consequences to her behaviour. I could explain it to her in every way possible and she would just blink and stare at me. Everything was always my fault. She could rage at me and be accusatory and paranoid and suspicious and that was okay with her but if I got angry after I had enough (and I could get very angry to the point I would break something instead of her! J/K! Hahahaha! And that rage and behaviour is not me and never has been until I met her insanity) And if I got angry and told her all about herself or called her a bitch or whatever then that's all she could seem to remember. And this behaviour always seemed to sneak up on me. She had periods of mental clarity and stability and I would forget and I would hope the last episode was the last. I would forget and then kaboom! Here it comes again. And the way my mind is, it doesn't seem to be able to understand these periods of complete insanity. It makes me feel insane. It changed me. I'll never be the same. She says she misses me sometimes and how I used to be! It just never ends. She doesn't understand the damage she's done to us. She cant' rationalize anything and put things together and come to a logical conclusion. She can't ever talk about anything emotional. It's all about her and she's always right. Has not once apologized for being mean and ugly to me. What's sad is, I do not think she realizes. It seems that whatever reality she is in at the moment is reality to her. But it's not reality. She'll deny she said things or made promises and she'll say she said things she never said. And project that on me by saying I do the same things I just mentioned when I don't. And the control factor. She has to be in control of every aspect of every situation she is involved in including people. And if you don't agree with her or she with you then so long! Nice knowing you! She turns on people for good. It's one way or the other and no abstract in between. And I never seem to know which person I'm going to be dealing with. Emotions. A rollercoaster. But it seems to only based on three or four. Extremely happy, pissed off and distant, bossy and controlling or depressed and sad. There is nothing else. She is extremely high functioning to a point and that point ends with not being able to to let others be happy in her environment. What I mean is that she can't completley square things away. Simple things in the household as far as everyday living goes. the simple most important things seem to be a big deal. Everything is a crisis. Can't make up her mind. Can't commit to anything simple. It's very bizarre. I just realized I could go on and on for days and I'm becoming drained and tired of typing. If there is anything you want to ask me then please do. What does what I've said so far sound like? I'm not asking for a diagnosis. I hope you have a good Memorial Day weekend. Remember why we are able to have the freedom to do what we are doing right now. Bye!

Dr. K. Eisele - Mon May 28, 2007 5:53 am

Dear Habanero: Some personality types came to mind while reading your description, but borderline personality wasn't one of them. One of the most common themes among folks with borderline personality disorder is fear of abandonment. The behaviors seen are nearly all connected in some way to ward off rejection. It doesn't sound like that is your friend's problem. Other characteristics of borderline personality type are: low self-esteem little "sense of self" self-injury very unstable "moods" intense fear of abandonment poor boundaries Someone with low self-esteem will have difficulty being high-functioning because the ability to function well requires a combination of intelligence as well as self-confidence. Similarly, successful people are often those who have a career vs. a job. It usually takes knowing oneself to have a career. Self-injury is almost always present in someone with a borderline personality type. Because they frequently experience numbing of their emotions, self-injury is way for them to feel real. Poor boundaries can be more or less obvious depending on the intelligence of the individual or on the degree of personality pathology present. "Boundaries" refers to that line that separates oneself from the rest of the world. An example of someone who cannot respect their boundaries is the girlfriend who calls your mother before she's been introduced to her by you, or the one-night-stand who you can't seem to shake, because she's in love. There are a lot of things in combination that would make a person "borderline." The person's history is also an important piece of the puzzle. People with borderline personality type got that way because of horrid childhoods. From what you wrote, it seemed more like she may be narcissistic rather than borderline. Look through the characteristics above and compare them with what you know about "her," and write back.

habanero - Mon May 28, 2007 11:10 pm

I failed to discuss several things and they are definately relative to the things you mentioned concerning Borderline. Self injury? Does it strictly have to do with 'cutting'? Could you self injure to numb through the use of alcohol and drugs? Could a Borderline present well in certain situations like a job or career but not be able to cope with certain things at home or in a close personal relationship? Sense of self. I think I understand her better than she does herself. I seem to be able to look through the gunk. Very unstable moods is a very good way to describe her. She's different all the time. I never know what to expect. No stable personality. Sometimes she is herself and normal and stable and rational but most of the time she'll change constantly. From one minute to the next or hour or day or weeks or months. Understand? Boundaries are very poor or non-existent. I won't get into how because I want to retain some privacy. Abandonment. Could a Borderline try in some sick and intricate way to push someone away before they think that person may abandon them like a defense mechanism? She's also hypersensitive and has been extremely verbal and physically aggressive to me. She'll remember only how I react or respond to her rages and abuse. She can get very depressed, also. What is narcisism?

habanero - Mon May 28, 2007 11:21 pm

I failed to mention also that there has been what I consider horrible trauma early in her life. Several situations I was told about that were never dealt with. It seemed to all be taken out on me like I was being punished for something I didn't do. She either loves me or wants nothing to do with me. I'm a good guy or a bad guy and nothing else. She can also go through moods like laughing and then crying and then being angry in a very short period of time and this happens very often and it seems to be for no reason or no good reason and often times exagerated yet real like she can't help it. I hope that made sense. It's actually very hard to put into words exactly what it's like and how traumatic it can be for me. I've only scratched the surface with what I've said so far.

habanero - Mon May 28, 2007 11:28 pm

I keep remembering stuff. I really want to get to the bottom of this so I can rest my mind. She has a fear of being close. Like she's afraid of being hurt again. Close but not too close is the way she wants it, it seems. And there are a ton of defense mechanisms she'll use to keep things just like that between me and her. As soon as she starts to feel her control slip she'll fix it real quick and I don't think she realizes what she is doing because it's so ingrained in her way of thinking. She has to be in control always and can be very manipulative. Has serious trust issues.

Dr. K. Eisele - Thu May 31, 2007 7:58 am

Dear Habanero: You have done a really good job of digging deep to describe your friend! Still, the picture is puzzling to me. Using drugs and alcohol is certainly one way to self-injure, but the kind of self-injury usually seen in folks with borderline personality disorder is pretty obvious and concrete, like cutting or burning. You mentioned that she has no boundaries. Is her lack of respect for boundaries an effort to get close and stay close, or is it a more intrusive, condescending manner? Her behavior of drawing you in close only to push you away does sound like a huge trust issue. People with borderline personality disorder do have trust issues, but usually their fear of rejection and abandonment override the trust issues. For example, someone with borderline personality disorder who has no sense of personal boundaries will often form a very strong "love" bond with someone inappropriately--such as within hours or days of having met them. They tend to be clingy also. Because of their intense fear of abandonment and/or rejection, the person with borderline personality disorder will often do the things that tend to push people away in disgust, such as excessive clinging, calling at all times of the day and night, and will even manipulate a situation just to get closer to you somehow. The self-injury often occurs when the stress of being afraid of rejection becomes too great for them to bear--they hurt inside so badly that the only relief comes from cutting or burning their own flesh. By causing themselves physical pain, the emotional pain is alleviated if only briefly. The end result is that the act of self-injury actually becomes pleasurable, and the deeper they get into that kind of activity, the more they need to do it. It really is not much different than an addiction. The other characteristics you describe, in particular the mood swings, do sound a lot like what many of patients seem to experience. Still, there's something about your friend that just doesn't seem to ft.... The person with narcissistic personality disorder is a rather unique individual. The disorder is actually rather uncommon, but when you find one, you tend to know it. Most people have difficulty being around the person with narcissistic personality disorder. It's almost as if there isn't enough room wherever you happen to be for both of you to occupy that space because the narcissist's ego is way too large. Consider a situation in which you are the expert at your vocation, have come to speak to a group of people about what you do, and someone in the crowd acts like they know more than you about your vocation. That person may end up taking over the discussion, thus making you look very foolish. The louder you object to the interference, the more the narcissist enjoys stealing your thurnder. A person who is narcissistic tends to do best with someone who is very passive. The person who tends to be a wallflower, on purpose, and tends to agree with everything he/she hears is a prime target for a narcissist. While they may initially be attracted to someone who is as dominant as they are, the relationship is almost certainly doomed to fail, becuase there can be only one partner who is the smartest and most accomplished.

habanero - Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:18 am

Wow. Okay, now I realize you are very percerptive. But how perceptive? How deep ya wanna go? Yes her lack of boundaries are condescending and very intrusive. Especially from the beginning. But they became more horrible and nasty in the most suptle ways. A narcissist? - A desire to control? Always right no matter what? Their way only even if another way makes more sense? Can't ever be wrong? Even if they can be proved wrong in a thousand ways? Will not let themselsves be proved wrong no matter what? Can't ever back down? Can't ever come to a compromise or a conclusion or a solution or agreement where both people are satisfied? Their way or no way? Never apologize? Can be aggressive or violent in many ways? Can't say "Hey, you know what? I'm sorry, I was wrong. I realize that." of "Wow, that's a really good way of doing that, good job, how did you think of that?" Am I on track with this, Dr.? I sure do wish there was private messaging on this site. I'd like to get into specifics because I feel like there is more that you need to know I can't say here. Can you PM me or have me set up a private email for more private discussion? I would never, ever repeat or use anything you've said so far or in the future towards her. This is for me. There are specifics I'd like to ask about. This is serious. I love her. I want to know what I can do. How I might respond. I was thinking about you today. I checked me E-mail and read your response and I thought that I really admire you for taking time to care about my problems. You are a true person. I thank you. Oh, and yes I am a passive person and I've often wondered why some people seem a certain way at first and act like a friend and then when they size you up they start acting like an ass. Narcissism, right? Hey, but then my personal boundaries kick in and then conflict arises with the people I trust and then it's bewildering. Narcissism? Oh, will a narcissist get mad at you and judge you for doing the same or something similiar to what they are doing? Do they not understand communication? Wiill a narcissist allow you into to their life only if you are doing what they approve? Are they not a team player? Positions of power are only good for them? If you question them or make them feel wrong or disrupt their routine then you have thrown the whole universe out of whack? Am I on track? I have gone through all the diagnosis but what you have told me makes sense. Being able to see all of this behaviour, do I seem nuts? Why do I feel that way? Is it because I've spent so much time with someone who is? She tells me I'm the one with the probem. What can I do? How do I respond to this behaviour? What causes narcissism? All I've ever been able to do is react to it and it hasn't been pretty. Not pretty at all. Very ugly sometimes. It slaps me in the face, catches me off guard and re-arranges my whole reality. I do not understand. It causes conflict. Nasty conflict.

angelkt - Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:10 pm

Hi I hope you don't mind me barging n on this topic I was just int as someone mentioned it me me the once but I always disregarded it as I spose I just didnt didnt know what it was but I did do a few self test things on line and they all came back 'very high' I was wondering if these things tend to be accurate?

habanero - Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:40 am

Which tests did you take? For Borderline or Narcissism? Either way, I would assume that these tests aren't very accurate but they are meant to help you make a decision to see a professional. Understand? They are accurate enough to point you to a therapist if you are concerned but they are not a diagnosis. You should never let yourself or anyone other than a professional diagnose you and you should get a second opinion if the doctors says it's okay. If he or she doesn't say it's okay then find another doctor! And no you didn't barge in on our discussion. Any more questions? Please, ask.

Dr. K. Eisele - Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:39 am

Dear AngelKt: The tests found on the internet are highly inaccurate for the most part. Of course it depends on the source. Many of the tests will tell you of a "high probability" no matter what you say. Some will say to see your doctor no matter the result of the test.

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