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Forum Name: Psychiatric Topics

Question: Psychiatrists' questions of mental capability

 Awake_Conscience - Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:07 am

I have been ruled mentally ill in both Iran and USA, and I have been forced medication by the order of psychiatrist. I understand that these medicines are for my own good, but what makes them forced is the fact that psychiatrists have diagnosed me as mentally incapable. I beleive in the examination some psychiatrists ask a scientific question to determine mental capability. I remember two questions like this from two separate psychiatrists. The following is a scientific arguement that my answers to these questions are more close to truth by modern sciences than the psychiatrists' answer.

The first question that one doctor asked me is: "In the old times people were thinking that the Sun rotates around the Earth. Now if I tell you that now scientists beleive that the Earth is rotating around the Sun and it is not that the Sun rotates around the Earth, would you accept that?"

My answer then was and now is that: With the issue of relativity in mind, it depends on the frame of reference. If the observer is located at the Sun, he/she would say that the Earth is rotating around the Sun and since the Earth rotates around itself, people in Earth may think Sun is rotating around them. But equivalently if observer stations Earth as the frame of reference, then he/she would say that the Sun is rotating around the Earth, and since the Sun rotates around itself, the people in the Sun may think that the Earth is rotating around them! All together one person that is not located in the Sun nor the Earth would measure that the Sun and the Earth rotate around each other. One complete rotation of the Earth around the Sun takes 365 days whilst one complete rotation of the Sun around the Earth takes 24 hours. These two times that signify the rotations of the Sun and the Earth around each other are independent. Ofcourse the Sun is much more massive than the Earth. But if the Psychiatrist means mass, he/she should direct his/her question toward mass not the center of rotation. After all there is no center point for the universe to rotate around, and one can not say that one thing is rotating around the other and rule out the other way around. Nowadays relativity plays a great role in sciences, and it is more closer to truth.

The other question that another doctor asked me is: "During the day we can all see that the Sun lights everywhere. Now if I tell you that during the night too every where is lighted from the Sun and not other things, with the exception of stars whose light is not that significant, would you accept that?"

My answer then was and now is that: Nowadays nuclear power plants generate some electric power that some lights are lighted by this power. This energy is nuclear energy stored in the Uranium rocks. Nuclear energy does not originate from the Sun. The light of the Sun itself is from nuclear reaction, and it is not the other way around. So some of the light in the nights come from Uranium rocks, not the Sun.

Both of my answers to these questions were taken by the psychiatrists as signs of my mental incapability.

This article is submitted to be kept in the books.

Thanks for your attention.
 Faye Lang, RN, MSW - Thu May 14, 2009 3:27 pm

Hello Awake_Conscience,

In any psychiatric interview, several questions are asked to determine how the subject thinks, the orientation to self, place and time, and the person's intensity.
You are extremely intense in your answers and have tried to identify every possible factor that might affect the basic answer. Your answers prove only that you must give exquisite attention to detail and possibilities, and not that the psychiatrist's questions were wrong. I suspect you have considerable control issues to the point of obsession. I would also determine a mental disorder based on your responses to the questions.

Good luck to you.
Faye, RN, MSW
 Awake_Conscience - Fri May 15, 2009 4:10 am

Hello Mrs. Lang

Thank you for your response.

I should say I have not any problem with having a mental disorder as it may happen to anybody. My main problem is FORCED medicine or confinment in mental hospital.

My understanding was that psychiatrists put me under forced medication because I proved my inability to understand my own good specifically based on these scientific questions. To psychiatrists my answers were wrong.

Now, my main question is: Do these sort of scientific questions exist in psychiatric interview to determine mental capability on not?

Thank you for your attention.
 kazza26 - Thu May 21, 2009 12:48 pm

can i just say what i would of done in this situation
ok firstly i don't have any mental health issues but both questions simply say `would you accept this` to me this is a simple closed question,so the answer will either be `yes or no or not sure`
if the question had said `do you accept this and give a reason for your answer` then it would of been an open question and i would of given a bigger answer

how ever i am not an expert and maybe my answers would of been wrong as well.if thats the case,lock me up,just make sure its in one of those places where you can get access to a swimming pool and tennis courts
 Awake_Conscience - Tue May 26, 2009 6:11 am

Thank you for your comment.

It is true that psychiatrists expected an immidiate and one word answers. And when I started to explain they closed the discussion.

My concern is that psychiatrists can not base actions like forcing medicine on scientific questions such as the ones I stated. Psychiatrists expected an abrupt yes as mental adequecy (capability?). Science has changed during the ages and you can not rely on science to test people's mental adequecy. I have presented my reasons for my answers for may be some scientific review. I beleive psychiatrist had the wrong answer.

It somewhat feels like middle ages that mideval church would not allow any other answer to what they know. Mid eval church also acted on conviction of people. And now psychiatrists put me on forced medicine because of an issue that belongs to science. Afterall I may be correct on those answers.
 Faye Lang, RN, MSW - Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:39 pm

Hello, Awake_Conscience,

Please accept my apology that I did not see your follow-up post before now. I'll provide some information and hope that it will be useful to you and to others who may read your posts.

The questions that psychiatrists use to determine various states of mental capacity are based on scientific research and experience. Sometimes the need to explain each answer is an indication of the person's thought processes, and may reflect a psychiatric disorder. The content of the questions are adjusted to help clarify problem areas. The questions are not necessarily phrased the same by every psychiatrist or therapist, but the key points are consistent. An involuntary hospitalization and medication is a legal matter, and the psychiatrist or therapist must comply with the legal standards. When a person meets the standards, the involuntary hospitalization happens. During that time, the person is at a point of their least ability to deal with the events, and it can feel very unfair. The overall goal is to protect and help the person having such difficulties.

I hope you are doing well, and I wish you the best of luck.
 Awake_Conscience - Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:10 am

Then I guess my problem is more related to legislation and legal matters. I believe there are certain issues, like freedom, that are sacred that psychiatry or any other science. I believe in the following issue before science: Every body is free until they violate some body else’s freedom. Then involuntary hospitalization should be practiced when some law is broken, and it should not be practiced because of some diagnosis. When a certain profession like psychiatry has the power to limit people’s freedom, then abuse of this power is possible.

This is especially evident when psychiatrists do not allow the person to explain their point of view and call it part of illness and limit his or her freedom by involuntary treatment.

You tell me what I am supposed to do. Psychiatrists believe that when we know earth is orbiting the sun, then we can not accept that sun orbits the earth as well. I believe modern science and relativity allows my point of view. But psychiatry calls me in the least acceptable state of mind and gives me involuntary treatment. And on top of it psychiatry does not allow me to explain it.

This thread was meant to let the people make an assessment on these sort of questions and answers that psychiatrists take as a reason for involuntary treatment and related issues of freedom and rights.

Thanks for your attention
 Faye Lang, RN, MSW - Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:21 pm

Hello, Awake_Conscience,

It is not an issue of a law being broken, but the legal definitions for personal and public safety in the issue of psychiatric disorders. Since you are not able to accept the idea of an answer limited to the scope of a question, your best resort might be to ask the psychiatrist if he or she would allow discussion in their evaluation. However, there is still likely to be limitation on discussion, as your ability to comply and limit your discussion really is part of a mental assessment. Mental evaluations are based on consistent application of a consistent set of questions that are related to mental function; if the person is unable to stay within the limits, it is an indication of a thought impairment. I regret if this is unacceptable to you. It just happens to be the current standard of evaluation and treatment.

I hope this helps clarify the issue.

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